is the president checkmated? - 07.22.25
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[00:00:00] John Zogby: President Trump has lost control of the conversation. Jeffrey Epstein.

[00:00:06] I wonder if we're in a situation where Trump is the new Nixon this time around. 

[00:00:13] Jeremy Zogby: I think it could really be one of the final nails in the coffin of confidence in our political system. It's not just a Democrat phenomenon, it's not just a Republican phenomenon.

[00:00:26] 

[00:00:32] John Zogby: It is Tuesday. This is a regular edition of real polling in real time with Zogby, and there's a lot of polling, not ours. we're coming up, very soon, but, today we're gonna talk about some polls, others have done that are very telling. but how are you doing this week? 

[00:00:53] Jeremy Zogby: I am spending a lot of time. To make sense [00:01:00] of what is, light speed news. And just when I thought I made sense, there was just another, major announcement within 30 minutes ago. But we'll do our best to provide clarity. I. 

[00:01:13] John Zogby: All right, I'm gonna kick it off and do a weekly report card for the Washington Examiner and I use the line. In there, I'm going to, explain. And the line in the examiner was, are we one Saturday away from a Saturday night massacre? And, those who don't know, the historical.

[00:01:42] Reference, we're going back to October of 73, the Watergate investigation, reaching its peak and almost end, and then revealed that President Nixon had been, taping. Private conversations in the White House, [00:02:00] in the Oval Office. then the battle shifted to the release of those tapes, and we got to a point in October of 73, a stalemate with the, special prosecutor, a strong case that the tapes needed to be released for his case against President Nixon, and of course, and his forces, that. And so we get to this Saturday night in 1973 and Nixon contacts his attorney general. The Attorney General Elliot Richardson and demands that the special prosecutor be fired, that would be Archibald Cox Elliot Richardson of Massachusetts says No, and he resigns. That leaves. Then the Deputy Attorney General William Ruckelshaus, who was ordered the same by Nixon and [00:03:00] Ruckelshaus refused as well and resigned that then left the number three person, the solicitor general who became acting attorney general fired the special prosecutor, and that is credited historically as the beginning of the end. Of the Nixon administration. Eventually the tapes would be released. They were damning, and it was over. It took a while. It took, about 10 months. But, Nixon was effectively ineffective as president of the United States from that point on. And so bringing it up to speed, let's just say number one, that President Trump has lost control of the conversation. Jeffrey Epstein. that, that is the news and it's out of his control. that number two, it looks like in some way, shape or form. Those, the [00:04:00] files on, Jeffrey Epstein and his relationship with the president will be, Released in some, as I said, way, shape, or form. And thirdly, we have this contradictory facts coming out.

[00:04:19] How close was President Trump and Donald Trump in the earlier years to Jeffrey Epstein? He says, not at all. He says, That, this is much ado about nothing, but there does appear to be some damning facts there that he was in fact close to Jeffrey Epstein. I am gonna make the case, and I'm not gonna predict, but I'm just going to suggest this is gonna dominate his presidency and if this dominates his presidency among maga leaders, you're getting. Even vocal [00:05:00] supporters saying he's gotta release all this information and he's Donald Trump, not quite the guy that we thought he is. On the other hand, we do know in the polling that's out, in the last few days that this Epstein issue was hurting him. His polling numbers have taken a tilt down into the low forties, which is. Significant, still strong among Republicans, 88, 80 9%, but it's among independents where he's now down by as many as 25 points, 59 to to 31, 59 to 35 with the 59 being disapproving of his presidency. And we also know he's getting low marks. Now on the economy, on immigration, on handling inflation on foreign policy, he has taken a real tumble. [00:06:00] frankly, am finding a way that he gets himself out of it. And that's why I wonder, given the state that he's in, is real intense anger and lashing out. And even his MAGA supporters. I wonder if we're in a situation where Trump is the new Nixon this time around. 

[00:06:23] Jeremy Zogby: Yeah. I was wondering what the, historical analogy. I've been wondering that for the past couple day, days, and I think that's a pretty good one. I do think it goes beyond that. let me just state, state frankly, and starkly. I do believe President Trump is backed into a corner.

[00:06:52] but I do also believe, that. it, on [00:07:00] the surface level, I, the unfortunate thing is a lot of voters are processing this event, in terms of Democrat versus Republican. let me be even starker. Both Democrats and Republicans are implicated in this, massive, story, which is, a crisis.

[00:07:24] Which is so bad of a crisis. I think it could, really be one of the final nails in the coffin of confidence in our political system. It's not just a Democrat phenomenon, it's not just a Republican phenomenon. It's one of those things that implies billionaires. It implies heads of states. It implies party leaders on the Republican side, on the democratic side, I don't know if Trump is implicated.

[00:07:54] but it doesn't look good. But we know that a, former president, [00:08:00] is implicated and so this is really nasty. and what takes it to the even next level is that in the same week, the DNI, the director of National Intelligence. And I don't think it's a coincidence that it was this week or in the last week that this Epstein story was blowing up and it was momentum in the favor of the Democrats that then comes out, oh, we've got, evidence that, Obama is implicated in Russiagate.

[00:08:38] And that, in the highest powers, in the highest ranks of the DNC. You will find Hillary Clinton and you will find Barack Obama. according to Tulsi Gabbard, were orchestrating this. And whether that's true or not, [00:09:00] I, don't know. if you, really wanna know the truth, I think all of this stuff is true.

[00:09:04] Everything we're talking about, I, would guess is true, but that's not important. I'm looking at the effect. And so we are now back. Full scale political warfare. Picking up right where we left off just months ago, it seemed to be like, yeah, it was intense after Trump won. the media didn't go after him as much as they did in 2016.

[00:09:29] And Democrats for a while were somewhat acknowledging their failure, in their messaging and in the 2024 election. But here we are. We're back, at the political warfare to the highest level. I think that we've been in this modern era, and I don't think that it steps back. I think this is the point of, of, no return.

[00:09:57] And so now we're marching towards. [00:10:00] The conclusion or the beginning of a conclusion of what is this new system going to look like? And so I can't help but think about a book that I just determined I was gonna read last night. The last thing I was gonna say, the great historian Jacques Zo, who wrote this book about western history called, from Dawn to Decadence, and we are amidst this period.

[00:10:26] Of ultra decadence and it's playing out in our national domestic politics and it's playing out in the international scene. And boy, this is the stuff of what goes down in history books. We're living in it right now. 

[00:10:43] John Zogby: We are, it's a revolutionary period, as I've said times, and written as well, but it is also a period where things are coming apart, and that includes, let's bring it back to the. to domestic politics where both [00:11:00] parties are not simply broken. I think irreparable and just to bring it to the, its original focus, let's take the metaphor of, rats.

[00:11:12] Some have d on their sweatshirts and some have are on their sweatshirts, but they're rats nonetheless. The reason why they are relevant to us is that. D rats, one of their presidents left the presidency 25 years ago. Another left the presidency, eight years ago. We are focused on the R Rat who has announced, and up to this point born out, that he could shoot someone. On Fifth Avenue at noon and get away with it. And we are at a point now just narrowly within the confines of domestic politics where he may be wrong, that his presidency is in [00:12:00] real trouble. And I say even further because I agree with everything that you just said, but even further, for the Republican party. A lot of the support that they have today is Donald Trump focused. If something were to happen that Donald Trump were to leave office, I don't think that President JD Vance. Has the capacity to build the kind of reservoir or goodwill around his presidency and around his persona that Donald Trump has with maga. And so if with Trump out of the picture, I think we've got a Republican house of cards, and yes, we already have a democratic. of cards. we do, this is a where I think we, we both see that this is a crisis, but I want just wanna focus on the short term. I think we, we are at a, tipping point right now that we need to be [00:13:00] following day by day. 

[00:13:01] Jeremy Zogby: Yeah, I just think I, I agree with you. I, and I, I said earlier, if you ask my personal opinion, a about the implications of, or about. DNC leadership being behind Russia, the Russiagate hoax or the Russia gate, whatever you want to call it. and then all the way on the other side, the Epstein files and it including top level Republicans and top level Democrats.

[00:13:30] I say all of the above and I will say this, how do I believe that is? It's very simple. Jay Edgar Hoover was a master at the use of blackmail. And if that was the case in the sixties and the seventies, do you think in the 2000 twenties that we don't have that, that going on right now? Of course we do.

[00:13:54] the last thing I will say, I think the bigger picture of it though, what happens next, [00:14:00] in this very potential downfall of, of President Trump. and it would take something, I think. Unbelievable. Maybe even miraculous to, to turn it around. I think the next level of it all is that next level of political warfare.

[00:14:18] And so my question is, and I will answer it, is which political party which party will declare checkmate? I don't think either I, think they've both been checkmated. 

[00:14:33] John Zogby: I think they've both been check made it too. I. I begged the original question. we one Saturday away from a Saturday night massacre? That's all I gotta say. 

[00:14:49] Jeremy Zogby: it was a lot.

[00:14:52] John Zogby: Yeah, life goes on. Have a good week. I.

[00:14:56] Jeremy Zogby: Yeah.

[00:14:58]