John Zogby: [00:00:00] I feel like I'm watching somebody coming apart at the seams. it's not fun to watch. He's the president of the United States.

Jeremy Zogby: An element of the Trump administration.

And, this is not justification rationalization, it's, divisive, it's polarizing. But here's the paradox. that can sicken people's and twist people's stomach. It works.

John Zogby: Susie Wiles, of course, is savvy operative. She is the chief of staff,

Jeremy Zogby: is

She jumping ship or is, she signaling something?

John Zogby: I'm gonna date this one. It's December 19th, 2025. I'm dating it because things move just so rapidly. You ought to have at least a context of when Jeremy and I are speaking. So it's Friday morning and welcome to another edition of, Polling in Real Time with [00:01:00] Zogby. Here we are.

I'm John. Hey, Jr.

Jeremy Zogby: Hey dad.

John Zogby: Lots to do today, and so I'm just gonna start right in. first and foremost, the, I noted how rapidly things are moving, and they're, major things. and war, it appears in the Caribbean and threats coming from Putin and others abroad. In addition to that, inflation, mixed numbers on inflation. rating seemingly to indicate that it's going down. On the other hand, going up, some of the real basics, regardless of whether it's up or down, the public is in a very foul mood about affordability. That's buzzword for 2026. So much more now that. [00:02:00] Economists are beginning to shift their talk about unemployment. The, the Bureau of Labor Statistics numbers that just came out 48 hours ago were a mixed bag of things, but the overall unemployment rate is at 4.6, which sounds like, days of old. the problem is, the confusion the president and his team sowed over. The capture of unemployment numbers, raising serious questions, changing things at the Bureau of Labor Statistics, we don't know exactly when the numbers are gonna be counted. There were supposed to be counted, but there was a government shutdown. There weren't enough people. So we, don't even know anything about these numbers except doubt. confusion and that kind of reigns supreme. [00:03:00] all of these issues aside, there's something that's on my mind. So we're pollsters and we're not afraid to publish numbers that may be different, with, the critical mass of where polls are. Other polls. The average is at about 42, 40 3% approval. We have the president as of last week at about 47% approval, where we all agree is that his numbers are down. His numbers are down on important issues like inflation, foreign policy, but here's what's troubling. There are three things are going on, and I'm gonna deal with them in the reverse order of importance. And these are the things that scratch my head and make me wonder. So number three. Is the renaming of the Kennedy Center now. first of all, it's very [00:04:00] controversial. Secondly, it's the sort of thing that was named after a president who had been assassinated. and thirdly. People don't get things named after them while they're still in office, while they're still alive, and while they may have an interest in it, this is a board where half of the members were appointed by Mr.

Trump himself. it, it seems icky. It's, it seems troublesome, especially the Kennedy Center is reporting shows being canceled, ticket sales down audience is down, and perhaps questionable timing. The second thing that troubles me, and these are all related, I'm gonna tie them in together, the Susie [00:05:00] Wiles interview. Vanity Fair. Susie Wiles, of course, is savvy operative. She is the chief of staff, probably the number two powerful position in the United States. She is not a shrinking violet. the White House claims that in her interview she was manipulated. But anybody who's knows or has met, and you have Wiles, will say that this is no country girl. this, is, a keen, operative she said a lot of things, a lot of things about the president said worse things about the vice president. Even worse things about Deputy Chief of Staff, Steve Miller and Pete Hegseth, and a whole bunch of people, but she's the one who holds the administration together. And so me it's not so much what she said. [00:06:00] Which is really bizarre how she said it, which is even more bizarre, but why she said it and why she did it. Now, is there a book deal? Does she sense that something is amiss and the players are gonna be changed? That the Trump White House she wants to get herself in a position, meaning out. before anybody else, I'm purely speculating here. The White House response, though, has not been very credible this. And then the third thing, and in a class by itself that's most troubling is how the President handled the murder of Rob Reer, and his wife. I can't begin to conjure up words.

Reprehensible, [00:07:00] disgusting, bizarre, inhuman, inhumane, narcissistic, whatever that may be that motivated him aside from. I suppose given what we know about his treatment of John McCain, his treatment of the New York Times reporter with a physical disability, his calling rep, female reporters, pig, and stupid, that this is part of his personality, whatever it is, I feel like I'm watching somebody coming apart at the seams. it's not fun to watch. He's the president of the United States. It's even less fun watch what on Earth is going on here. you have any thoughts about that or do you wanna shift to something else?

Jeremy Zogby: No. I think it's all [00:08:00] important. And I'll just begin with the last question then work my way back. this is nothing new to, either. you, go back to the first Trump administration, believe it or not, one could argue, the chaos during the first Trump administration overall is about the same, if not arguably even more.

there there was a lot of exits in, the cabinet, people coming and going. there was a media war that was declared. A lot of people had no idea what, observers of news didn't really know what was going on. and I think we're, back to that. There, there's bizarre stories.

You're talking about actual behavior from the president that's on record. in terms of, [00:09:00] social media postings. And just on live television and I, here, we are, five years of Trump, including the first administration. And this is the same stuff. You're, going to get this, an element of the Trump administration.

And, this is not justification rationalization, this is understanding what's going on, and it is contentious. it's, divisive, it's polarizing. But here's the paradox. that can sicken people's and twist people's stomach. It works. That's the key. A, as much as this is a clown show to many people, for some reason it appears to be working.

'cause here we are. How many podcasts later, still talking about what the president said and what he did and how shocked people are and. His approval [00:10:00] rating, as you note, is still around 47%. So it's, unfortunately, it's a degradation of politics. It's baked into the system. It's, likely not going to go away anytime soon.

but, meanwhile, both parties, don't look like they're performing well, going into the midterms. a any, you look at any polling data and you try to glean from it the successes of the Democrats and the Republicans and any data points that point to that success really is just the failure of the other party that both parties are performing so poorly.

that it leaves the door for either one to just barely outdo the other because objectively speaking, they're not doing well. They're not really setting the world on fire in terms of mo mobilizing and, motivating, their bases. [00:11:00] and winning over the middle support and the independence. Decisively. So we'll get that out of the way. Let's get to your point about, the Susie Wildes interview. look, when, I read about current events and I, imagine how an event happens and how a story breaks from the time of the event happening to the breaking of the story, you and I know very well there's a sausage making process that goes on and.

whatever we get as far as the information is what we're presented. I don't think it's always the full story. In fact, it can't be 'cause it's so complicated. But what we can do is we can ask the right questions to try and figure out what is happening. and I think you alluded to it, I think you almost hit the nail on the head when you raised the question about Susie Wild's personality, her style.[00:12:00]

her experience and why this language coming out in the Vanity Fair, article. Now, you were wondering, is she jumping ship or is, she signaling something? And I have to say, and I agree with you, she is very shrewd. She's very experienced. She masterminded the 2016, the 2020 and 2016. campaigns and was the mastermind for the 2024 campaign.

and I, think maybe what the wiles interview is signaling to the public is as we head into 2026 and as we head into the midterms, we may see a shuffling of, the cabinetry. And so that to me. Could be a signal that some people have to go, some people are going to go and, that would [00:13:00] not be a surprise, in a Trump administration.

John Zogby: Okay. There's a lot there. Of course, she included the vice president and that in itself is really intriguing because you're not gonna reshuffle, a, vice president.

Jeremy Zogby: No, and I don't believe so.

John Zogby: but let me pick up on your, Your polling related comments. You're absolutely right. when we look at the congressional generic, which is not a perfect question, but who would you vote for in your congressional district? we do find in most polls, Democrats leading some, somewhere around two percentage points. Sometimes higher than that, depending, as we know on how many Democrats are in the sample. and of course we never know the, usually there are fewer [00:14:00] Democrats in the sample, in, in off year elections. But what we also know is that given how the seats are apportioned. Nationwide Democrats have to have a four and a half to five point lead that congressional generic in order to be in a position to pick up seats, and they're not there yet. Now, far there is some evidence, Democrats emerged, have emerged from 2025. barometric reading gear for any new administration have emerged victorious. Overperforming. I think that's important. I think young voters are energized and as we've seen and said many times before that aberration in 2024 about Latinos and about Asians and about younger voters, younger, black [00:15:00] men. that seems to be dissipating and heading back to something more akin to the greater democratic support that, those, groups have given. but with that said is yes, you're right. Democrats have not closed the deal. On the other hand, we know that the President is bleeding among independents and, if, history. And four or five decades of experience out there means anything at all attacking Rob Reiner at the time of a horrible family tragedy, is just not the way to appeal to independent voters. frankly, I don't see how it appeals to human voters, but, I just. [00:16:00] Renaming the, in a very partisan way, the Kennedy Center, and I apologize for placing the Kennedy Center and the Riner tragedy, even in the same paragraph, let alone the same sentence. But the fact is the sheer politics of it, it may have worked before I, I don't get it right now, and something for belt foreboding is out there. Is this a president who, as we saw in his speech before the nation the other day, who really appears to be coming a part at the seams. This is a guy who's a master of television, and when you're on television, TV is a hot medium.

I talk to you like this. I don't yell to at you like I'm in an auditorium. He came out there [00:17:00] piss and vinegar. He came out there, He came out there not talking to John Q and Suzy Q America. He came out there talking to the masses and yelling at them. And that just doesn't seem like controlled narcissism of Donald Trump

accustomed to.

Jeremy Zogby: Yeah. I could say a lot. I, we're in agreement first and foremost that New Jersey and Virginia was, those two elections. just a little while ago were, earthquake like, but at the same time, that was more a signal of buyer's remorse and, signaling great [00:18:00] dissatisfaction and disappointment with the presidency, which often happens in those early elections.

but that does not, it doesn't translate to momentum. It doesn't translate to. a, straight path to, to victory as the same thing with the Republican party. you're, you, have a very big question and, I don't know if Trump is coming apart at the scenes. I only know that a lot of people have been asking that since 2017.

I also do know that, and this is not partisan, this is just, more of a cultural, historical observation. Biden was in, in a bad, place, in his term. And maybe Trump is too. Maybe there are just the, those are the perils of having leadership. leading one of the, one of [00:19:00] the largest, and most powerful nations in the country, in, in, the world, and having somebody at, around the age of 80 doing it, maybe not a good idea.

John Zogby: No, I can tell you it's not a good idea. okay. I think we covered what I wanted to cover. good insights again, is Trump coming apart at the seams? Stay tuned. Have a good week.

Jeremy Zogby: Yep. Have a good one. I.