Jeremy Zogby: [00:00:00] Donald Trump is never going to give it away. What he's going to do if he goes to the media and he says, this is why we're interested in Greenland, you can be certain that's not the reason they're interested in Greenland.
John Zogby: another layer to all of this is injecting the narcissism into it.
Jeremy Zogby: The reality is you're talking about power and competition
John Zogby: But it begs the question, is there something wrong with Donald Trump?
John Zogby: It's Friday, January 23rd and that means another edition of the six year long. Zogby report, real polling in real time. And as always, I'm here. I'm John and I'm here with Jeremy, who Hello.
Jeremy Zogby: hey dad.
John Zogby: So real numbers in real time. [00:01:00] we, don't have a poll on the president, that, new, but we have his job approval on the higher side, but then.
Several others, but, that was then, that's a few weeks ago. the trend line clearly is down and plateaued. So he goes from anywhere, job approval overall in the mid thirties, job disapproval all over 50, a net disapproval to approval of, minus double digits, and he's upside down. On his approval, disapproval on pretty much, every issue that's out there, including what he claims, to be a signature.
Issues like crime, immigration, inflation. But here we are. It is now. [00:02:00] January 26th, even though candidates for Congress, all the spaces are not filled in yet, we're expecting a very competitive race for the majority in the house. and I, do think a competitive race as well in the Senate and the president's numbers matter, and while he's not formally on any ballot, he clearly is, On people's minds as they go to vote in the off year elections. But I saw him in Davos. We all saw him in Davos, and it was troubling to me, it, was the, same personal hurts that get tiresome the policy by revenge. The real tough talk. They'll see, they'll know, just wait. It's the [00:03:00] absolutely false claim that Americans are growing to love the economy and that he has, resolved his words, eight global conflicts that could have led to war.
There's just absolutely no evidence of any of that. Talked very tough on Greenland. Said, just wait and see. You'll know what I'm talking about. I want ownership. I'm not gonna compromise. And then ends up, so far what we know about the Greenland passage, the Greenland, package that has been quote agreed upon is that it's pretty much the same as we had going in.
a free reign with approval from Denmark and Greenland to build more bases. Why the tough talk then? and there's more, there's so much more. But it begs the question, is there something wrong with Donald Trump? Now, [00:04:00] look, I'm not talking about the bruises on his hand or any of that s sort of stuff.
Let me just say, so I don't wanna make this a filibuster. We've had problems with presidents before. Andrew Johnson, in battling the radical Republicans in the mid to late 1860s, did a tour around the country. He was mainly drunk, mainly angry, and mainly not making much sense at all. Woodrow Wilson in his battle with Henry Cabot Lodge over the League of Nations.
Also did a train tour around the country and suffered a stroke and was debilitated for the rest of his presidency. And if you read Doris Kearns Goodwin, who, is famous today, but was an intern, at the White House, wrote a book, about Lyndon Johnson almost in real time, in which she said that the paranoia. [00:05:00] not only the pressure over Vietnam, but just the genuine fear that the CCIA was spying on him and out to get him, made him almost borderline mentally.
But in this instance, we have Donald Trump, who relies an awful lot on exaggerations and untruths. I'm not gonna use the L word, but we all know what I mean. But, He seems to be obsessed, with his legacy, naming stuff after himself, not getting the Nobel Prize. That's why one of the reasons why he wants Greenland, is something wrong with Donald Trump.
That's my question.
Jeremy Zogby: you and I have talked on this podcast about. That really, [00:06:00] of any, individual who seeks the highest office on Earth have, by nature, something a little bit wrong with them.
John Zogby: Yeah,
Jeremy Zogby: but,
John Zogby: that's true.
Jeremy Zogby: I. my job, our, our job is to really understand what's going on to try and give clarity to a lot of noise and a lot of confusion.
so if that's my objective right now, I think it's a lot simpler. I'm not a, I'm not a psychiatrist. And, I can't diagnose people. I, I, can read people and I'm looking at the situation [00:07:00] I, don't think it's so much, is there something wrong with him? I think it's trying to understand what is his strategy. And I think if you approach it from, that point of view, it becomes easier to answer. And The reality is that you're talking about power and competition 2026, the 2020s are an amazing time when we're trying to dissect power and where's the power shifting? all I can think about is Machiavellian principles and Machiavellian strategic thinking. And the way I understand it you start off with a very simple basic. What I would say truth is that Donald Trump is never going to give it away. What he's going to do if he goes to the [00:08:00] media and he says, this is why we're interested in Greenland, you can be certain that's not the reason they're interested in Greenland. If they're talking about why they're going to invade, or remove from power Maduro in Venezuela, it's not because of drug cartels and because of drug trafficking. you're talking about wanting to change regimes in Iran or whatever other nation, it's not for those reasons. there are deeper reasons. I would argue that it's very simple what Greenland is about. Greenland is about. And look, the, you can go back to Foreign Policy Magazine 20 years ago and I'm sure even before, but the Arctic is a very strategic, geopolitical zone in terms of [00:09:00] resources like oil, in terms of, rare earth minerals. And it's a place that people often forget. People look at a map and they look at it from the vantage point of looking at the equator. But if you look at, I believe it's either NATO or un, I forget, but they have a map of the world looking at it down at the North Pole. And if you look at it there, that's where China, Russia, and the United States all kind of converge and there's a scramble to dominate the Arctic. And that's the entire purpose I think, of Greenland and everything. Greenland has to offer it's po, it's geopolitically strategic because of its location and because of what it possesses. And Venezuela, we've talked about this, is about asserting dominance over the hemisphere to beat Russia and China to it.
Now, somebody could say, why doesn't he just come out and say, why does he just [00:10:00] come out and say what he's really doing these things for? And I think the obvious reasons are, if you go back to Machiavellian principles, you don't reveal your cards. And so a lot of this, there's bluffs, think about in the game of poker. there's purposely sowing seeds of confusion and, one thing I've come to learn about the president if he says he's going to do something like, for example, invade Iran or, regime change in Iran, I've now come to figure out eight out of 10 times he's not going to do that within the timeframe he makes it appear like he's going to do it. He'll do it in a, sense of shock, in a sense of surprise when you are least expecting it. And so it diverts the attention towards Iran. But then there's, a plan to go [00:11:00] elsewhere and, I think that's what's at play, and that's just the reality of his style. I'm not justifying it, I'm not saying it's good.
I'm not saying it's bad. I'm saying that's how it is. And, I think people have to get better at understanding that's his method to his madness.
John Zogby: Okay. here's, where I have to disagree. The Machiavelli was the consign to one of the most corrupt and, power hungry, families. In Italy, in the 16th century. And, they were, and forgive me, it was either the Borge or the [00:12:00] medic cheese, but there was really no difference. They were all after the same thing.
And that kind of machiavellianism worked well for quote the Prince as his work was entitled. But we're talking about a majority in a democracy that elected a President of the United States and that there are some responsibilities to communicate with, to bring along with you. Lincoln said you could fool some of the people all the time and all the people some of the time, but you can't fool all the people all the time.
But it appears. that Donald Trump is trying to fool as many people as he possibly can, and in the process is clearly enriching himself and clearly confusing the hell outta the people who elected him, including MAGA supporters. [00:13:00] Secondly, we have allies. Now, look, this is a period of disruption.
Globally, there's so much more going on. We've talked about it before. We'll talk about it again. And he is president of the United States in a period of disruption. But shouldn't his job be to right the ship? And if this is the way he writes the ship, does he not have a responsibility to communicate directly?
With allies, communicate directly with the American people for that matter. Honestly, communicate directly with our enemies and say, this is what is going on. Our enemy right now is confusion, and confusion leads to further disruption and instability, and that's what we've got. And so I have a real [00:14:00] problem with the way he's operating, and that's on the, on one level.
another layer to all of this is injecting the narcissism into it. I've been hurt. I don't get respect. They said this about me, but I'm gonna strike back. Because that's what I do. That's how I do it. And just watch me. Just watch me. And then ultimately, there's this term that's bandied about taco, Trump always cuts out, he did in Greenland.
God knows what's going on internally in Venezuela. it could very well be a civil war right now that's happening where there was. And look, Maduro is not a good guy. And Delcy and her family are even worse. That's the current acting president in terms of [00:15:00] being corrupt. But there was at least an element of stability.
It's like Saddam, don't go in and stir up a hornet's nest if the hornets are gonna be worse than what you got. Don't go in without a plan. What is the plan? Is the United States gonna govern it? Is Marco Rubio gonna be the president of Venezuela? Are we gonna work with Delcy? Are we gonna work with Machado?
we don't need this kind of confusion.
Jeremy Zogby: Yeah,
John Zogby: I,
Jeremy Zogby: yeah, all I would say to me, what's obvious is that it's very popular. in academic circles, in some academic circles, it was popular to, to do power elite analysis and, to look at
John Zogby: Yeah.
Jeremy Zogby: the elite and understand the inner workings of the elite. [00:16:00] But that's becoming, a lot more popular these days and all one has to really do, when they look at quote unquote, the elite is understand that there are factions the elite and. It's very obvious, that there, there is a major division within, Davos. I, think the speech watch so than the president was, the Secretary of Commerce, Howard Lutnick and his, declaration that globalization is dead I think what it really comes down to there is, there are a growing number of those within the elite who are breaking from the traditional ideas of what came out of [00:17:00] Davos. And it looks like it's going more towards this multipolar world. there, there was an
John Zogby: Yes.
Jeremy Zogby: Could we get the largest amount of cooperation? IE something like a global governance? it looks like that's being put off to the side and what there are, there are civilizational circles. I mean by that, there are nations who have civilizations, had civilizations for centuries, like Iran, China, like India, like Turkey. the world is reordering based on that. And the United States now realizing that and saying, alright, we have to have our civilizational circle.
And again, I'm not saying for better or for worse, I don't want to get into the morality or the ethics of geopolitics because it's [00:18:00] quite hairy. but the, that's what I see happening is a scramble unify. Something like North America or the Americas, although it doesn't look like that when the President and Mark Carney are, calling each other out at Davos. but there are factions with within the elite and it's, on full display we need to figure out where does it go from here. And I think what was the agenda for decades is clearly now. Put, off to the back burner and now it's actually fashionable to admit within Western circles the reality of the multipolar world. A lot of people didn't want to hear about that before because they were so intent on no. America is the superpower. America is going to dominate and lead even if it has competitors. Now [00:19:00] look at the actions and not the words and the actions show entirely different story, which I think that I, laid out.
John Zogby: And you did, but everybody's talking about Donald Trump, including me, and that's not how you do agenda setting for the future. And I. Rest my case by asking the original question. Is there something wrong with Donald Trump?
Jeremy Zogby: fun because we covered a lot of ground and, now let's ask ourselves based on what we know today as far as we think we could go into the future, based on the first year of the presidency what just happened in Davos. your political prediction? Forecast let's you know, let's make it softer forecast for 2026. [00:20:00] Whether you want to just focus on domestic politics or whether you want to go beyond what's your takeaway as where you think the trajectory of things are going in 2026?
John Zogby: As of this moment and understand that we get to renew this 'cause numbers can change, perceptions can change. And the issue of affordability, dominates. There of course is ice and the always the possibility of stepping into. A minefield, internationally, but as of today, the Democrats win back, control of both the House and the Senate.
That's today. I caution, I think the polling numbers are there nationwide when you look at the Congressional generic, which is a bad measurement, but it's what we've got. Democrats are leading [00:21:00] by six points. It's usually four to five points they need to lead, in order to pick up seats. Looks like they, they could pick up quite a few seats.
Depends on the candidates, as well.
Jeremy Zogby: What I would, I would say that I, think it's too, I, think it's too difficult for me to say who, party is, going to lead into the next several months. if the issues about, if let's say if we took 2022 and what were the hot button issues? and we were to say, alright, that's what's going to be on top of people's minds. Then I would probably tend to agree with you, although I do think, I do think both parties are going to up their game in terms of trying to do a better job connecting with voters, especially on [00:22:00] affordability. I if, you can't figure out affordability after all this time, four, six years since. Inflation has become the top issue, then we've got a serious problem. But I would like to think that both parties are gonna get creative and smart about that. But here where, here's where I think things get really interesting and difficult to project and forecast is I think the political issues that are going to surface near the top are gonna be gargantuan. In, in, in the sense that they're going to be above and beyond the traditional inflation, affordability, and crime and immigration. I think those are now standard issues that, that the public, it definitely impacts the public and how they'll vote. But what I see [00:23:00] brewing in 2026 in terms of complexity, I see. Issues that voters two, three years ago would've never thought would come into the political arena, will surface to the top. That's my broad forecast now in the coming weeks, I'd like to dissect that and talk about more clearly what those almost never before seen issues. oh. that could drive voters to the poll in 2026.
John Zogby: You tantalize me. I hope you are, to the folks that are watching and listening. Okay. I think we aired it all out and, I'll look forward to hearing what you have to say.
Jeremy Zogby: we'll, do it next week.
John Zogby: Alright, take care.
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